Combatting Burnout: Strategies for Healthcare Unit Transformation (#009)
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[00:00:00] Trace, you know what? I didn't expect this. Okay. You sound like the Buddha, not a Canadian coach. That's far from what I expected. Now you're making me blush, you know. Welcome to Safe Space Made Simple. A practical podcast that guides clinical leaders and healthcare managers to create trust and support with their teams.
[00:00:29] I'm your host, Trace Hobson. Join me for weekly interviews, practical tools, and inspiring transformational stories of bringing people together in healthcare. Now let's dive in. Hi everybody. Trace Hobson here. Welcome to the Safe Space Made Simple podcast. Today's episode is all about equipping you as a clinical leader to help your team transform the unit.
[00:00:52] What I'm talking about is the interpersonal conflicts and disrespectful conduct that you're probably experiencing in your unit. [00:01:00] This is going on in healthcare everywhere today, all over the world. I'm sharing a webinar that I did in 2019 for a group of students that were trying to figure out how to bring coaching into high stress, high pressure industries and sectors.
[00:01:15] Like health care, you'll learn simple, powerful steps that you can take for yourself and for your team to create a systemic change in your unit that also can ripple out to the larger system. Now, without further ado, let's go right to the show. Hey, we have trace here. Uh, he's currently in Holland. He's lives in Canada usually.
[00:01:37] And I met up with trace some while ago. Um, and I'll have a dialogue with him. And applying that into systems and various other, various works that he has done, both as, as I said, as a coach, as well as, uh, being a member of that, uh, uh, system. Uh, Ram and Magda, thank you for having me here. My name is [00:02:00] Trace Hobson.
[00:02:00] I own a company in which Does global training for managers and coaches, uh, different parts of the world. And I live in Canada, as Ram already mentioned, and uh, and really applied that work in systemic coaching in a number of different projects and in different parts of my work. The funny thing about systems that I first want to share is that there's oftentimes this sense that, that this, that we do something outside of ourselves with the system.
[00:02:26] We don't. We are the system. We literally Are always already in the system. And so I love what you're sharing about the, the, um, gorilla in the room earlier with the executives and, you know, um, what's going on there. And for me, as I listened to that, I'm actually already hearing the system and what the system is sharing with us through the fact that that is going on and invariably what it comes down to is oftentimes in those types of siloed situations is that.
[00:02:55] People don't feel safe. They don't feel like they can [00:03:00] actually be who they are in that space with authenticity. And so it's just safer and easier to go, no, I'm just going to do my own thing and stay in my silo. I don't want to collaborate over there. And very closely associated with the, with the level of.
[00:03:16] Feeling safe is listening as well and listening from a deep level to what's going on in the organization. What's going on all over it. And, you know, for me, this goes back quite a few years when I was an executive in operations in Canada, running projects and running an organization that was extremely reactive, very high stress, high, high pressure.
[00:03:40] And, and I started to notice that there was this theme inside of this where I had to listen very carefully. And care fully for what I was listening to in order to create an environment where we could get the work done, but we could also do that in a way that served the human spirit and and this is the constant thing is, yes, we [00:04:00] need to be practical and we need to get the work done.
[00:04:02] You mentioned our, you know, ROI. I also structure everything that I do around the key performance indicators that are wanting to be served in the project with the organization I'm working in. So, when we do a systems approach or a coach engagement, uh, you know, I'm listening to the organization, I'm listening through the individual.
[00:04:25] And for me, It happens in four channels of awareness. It happens, first of all, in the individual channel of awareness, my awareness, and I need to notice that, because oftentimes I think that in the past I would have been a very reactive manager rather than a responsive listening manager, listening coach, and really I can listen very deeply to what's going on inside of me as I'm engaging with the people in front of me, with the organization, with the department, with the whole system, the ecosystem.
[00:04:56] That's the first channel of awareness. The second channel of awareness is [00:05:00] that person over there, my team over there. You know, what is going on for them over there? And if I'm listening deeply to the first channel of awareness with compassion, and, and really, really, um, in presence, I can hear in a different way than if I'm reactive.
[00:05:18] And then I can also hear The group, the team, the person in front of me in a new way as well. That second channel of awareness, the other person shows up in a much different way. And I can start to hear. What wants to happen underneath that group, who that asks me to be as a space holder and what that asks me to do as a system input.
[00:05:40] And that takes me into the channel that's the third channel of awareness, which is between me and that other person or that other group. And that's the space in between where intentionally as a system input in a system's perspective. I can actually intentionally go into that space and embody [00:06:00] the change that wants to happen with the organization.
[00:06:04] And then that taps me into the fourth channel of awareness, which is this higher frequency of information that is the same frequency that runs a forest or runs an ocean. It's that natural frequency of information that's always there. And it's my belief that organizations It's long to be run or to run in a natural way, just like the forests.
[00:06:28] If you ever go out into a forest, you don't ever see any tree growing workshops. There's always growth there that comes naturally. The expansion comes naturally from the deep connection that's already always there. And so for me, Um, you know, I developed this perspective from my own work with, you know, thought leaders like Virginia Satir.
[00:06:51] I don't know if anybody knows who Virginia Satir was, but, you know, the, the mother of systems approaches from a family [00:07:00] perspective, and then also that work was taken into organizations many years ago. So I started learning from her, you know, a decade ago or 12 years ago from her work. And then auto Sharma, you mentioned, you know, theory, you, I, I loved theory.
[00:07:14] You accept that the problem that I always had with theory, you was what do I do in the bottom of the, you as a manager? That is in a very reactive, high paced organization, you know, if you try to tell everybody to slow down, you might find that the response is not always that positive. So, you know, what can I practically do as a system input?
[00:07:35] Well, for me, what that taught me and my work with transformational presence has taught me is that I literally am the system input. And as I show up, that has a huge effect on the space that's created for the people that I'm serving, whether that's an individual, a team, or an organization. And, um, [00:08:00] you know, so I think that it's much, much, for me at least, it's much, much simpler.
[00:08:06] than the, sort of, um, the large theories. I am a practitioner and a very pragmatic person, so I know when I'm, when I'm finding something that's working from the inside out, then I know I've found something. And, uh, about three years ago, I had a client that I was working with who is an executive in the healthcare system here in the Netherlands.
[00:08:29] And this, um, client was a director of a large team in a healthcare organization. That was going through a massive transformation, uh, and a transformation that had been going on for about three years by that point. And they struggled with so much, so much drama and reactiveness because the people in the organization were there to serve the clients.
[00:08:52] And when the fiscal pressure started to come down on them to change the way that they were doing their billable time and to do [00:09:00] more tasks with less and to do that in the faster periods of time, of course, her team was up in arms with that. And so I was her coach, and we began, I took her through a year long mentorship process.
[00:09:13] And, um, that's another thing, too, I think, that is important to mention, is that these things are, are, shifts and changes happen in the time that they take, and sometimes that takes A little longer and it might feel at first, like we're slowing down and we're not getting as much done, but what we found as she and I began to work together was that everything else sped up very, very powerfully.
[00:09:39] And so we were working together and we were, I was coaching her in the way that I'm describing to you now, you know, I developed the four channels of awareness and how to apply that practically. Uh, in her role, she be, she was great in that as she was invited to respond and to show up in her fullness, uh, [00:10:00] she and I worked together so that she could do that.
[00:10:02] And she started to do just that. And, you know, in transformational presence, we have three questions that Alan Seal has brought to us that are wonderful questions. The first is what wants to happen here from a higher perspective? You know, what is it that really wants to happen? Not maybe what do I want or what do you want?
[00:10:19] But what wants to happen from a systemic perspective? And then who does that ask me to be? Who do I want to be? And who does that ask me to be? And then the third question is, and now what does that ask me to do in one step? Just one simple step. And so we, we work together in that way. And she had a wonderful ability.
[00:10:39] Caroline Vierman is her name. And she had a wonderful ability to say yes. When, to simply say yes to what was showing up. And so she took those steps, one step at a time. Well, as time went on, uh, you know, we felt led to create a pilot for a small team of six women that were on the verge of being torn apart as a team.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] They couldn't assimilate the changes that the organization was bringing to them. They were having a lot of difficulty and so what ended up happening was, it was a last ditch effort to work with this team. And so Caroline and I designed, uh, a project, a prototype for them. Uh, it was a six session training for these six Dutch women had, they had never done anything like this before.
[00:11:25] They did it in English. They did it online. And so we started to work with them within three sessions, everything had shifted for them and they began to show up in a different way, more responsibly. They began to become more resilient, and they began to work together in a way that was brand new. Even though the external had not changed, they actually had changed in the way that they were working.
[00:11:52] Well, as time went on, they shared what was going on with their colleagues, and that small pilot turned into a larger pilot for 50 [00:12:00] people. And so we did the same thing with them, and we rolled that out of just It organically grew as a result of the work that we did together as individuals and on our team.
[00:12:10] Well, as time went on, that turned into 170 and long story short. I mean, we, I'm here in Holland to do another session with them. Uh, we're two years into that project now and all of the things that the executive team is trying to implement in changes. have become a byproduct of the work that we have done.
[00:12:31] And so one of the big KPIs that they wanted as an organization was absenteeism to go down and absenteeism was very high for them. Well, within three months of working together, uh, six months of working together. Uh, Carely was able to save 300, 000 euros in absenteeism. And there are many other data points that we're now collecting that are coming from the systemic approach that we use.
[00:12:58] So, that's one example and, and [00:13:00] sort of the perspective that I have. And, and where I come from, um, you know, it really does start from the inside out from one person and a space holder that, that able to listen and create a space of safety and discovery as you create that kind of a space so much can happen.
[00:13:21] Grace, absolutely. Fantastic. I'm truly glad that you're here. And I love those three questions. What does the system want? What does it want of me to be? And what does it want me to do? And probably we can expand that and the, the, what I really would like you, uh, if I could, uh, with your permission is to go a little deeper into the experience that you've had, especially.
[00:13:46] The problem areas and how you resolve it. Um, one of the things I, I have experienced and there are many others who have experiences because, um, the leaders in a, in a, in a team, in the system, it could be the CEO, it [00:14:00] could be a CXO. Um, they could potentially be toxic. They, they, they could have the abrasive, all that kind of thing happens.
[00:14:08] And therefore, then you have in the team, people, uh, some who are afraid. And therefore, they do not want to open up, or they open up who probably can't care, and anyway I'm leaving, so there is, there's a clear separation of disgruntled people and so on. Uh, and even in cases where things are fine, uh, I always notice that if there are ten people, there is at least going to be one or two.
[00:14:36] Who are going to at the very least thing differently, uh, different from other people. So in those kinds of environments, what is it that you do? Uh, not just the leader, the leader may be simpler because addressing one person working with a person who's willing, that's fine. But as a total team. Um, and what are the other problems that you have faced?
[00:14:59] Well, [00:15:00] so differences of opinion is a common problem for every team. And, um, especially if you have an agenda as a manager and you're trying to drive the team forward in a direction. And this is one of the key points with, with a new form of leadership that's being asked of people now. Um, in the old form of command and control leadership, You know, it worked very well and served us for a long time because we could get things done in a linear fashion and it still serves us in certain contexts as well.
[00:15:29] So we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. But in complexity, if you're leading from complexity, you need a different set of skills to be able to have a capacity for the complex. And so what you're talking about now in an environment where there's differences, it's even more important To be in presence and to show up in a way that creates safety and so what I do with that in different situations where there's conflict or where there's abrasiveness [00:16:00] or, or where there's, um, differences of opinion is to make sure that we're doing a really good job of creating a container that can hold the space and so what I mean by a container is that There needs to be an initiative, an initiator or a space holder in that organization, whether that's a manager and with the assistance of a coach or it's a coach, it doesn't really matter, that can create an agreement container that gives very specific space for each person to share what it is that they need in order to feel safe, in order to perform their best.
[00:16:38] In order to learn because in the new organizations that are now emerging, they are learning environments because they're able to take risks and be wrong. They're able to have differences of opinion. So we need to have an environment of discovery. And so there are certain ingredients and steps that we can take.
[00:16:58] To make sure that we have that [00:17:00] space set up. And of course those agreements are agreed to by everyone. And one common one is, so can we have a space where we don't see things the same way and that's all right, is, is that okay? And so from an executive level, I love working with the executive team for this reason, because oftentimes, you know, they have a sense of power in the organization that can shift things.
[00:17:25] Um, for everyone, but it's not necessarily true that you have to start there. And so having a space that's safe is really the fundamental first step. Can I feel safe? And what do I notice in that space as a manager or an executive or a coach? What do I notice from the inside out? And so oftentimes coaches come into organizations and they think that they have to be the one that's perfect and they have to be the practitioner and they have to, you know, be that.
[00:17:55] I look at it a little bit differently. As I go into a situation like that, I'm listening very [00:18:00] carefully to what's going on inside of me, and also what's going on outside of me. And so, if everything is just energy and motion, part of a larger process unfolding, uh, and energy can't be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed, and then energy is also built on a matrix of relationship.
[00:18:21] Everything is built on a relationship matrix. And so, I am part of the system and as I walk into that situation, whether it's a conflict or it's a problem or it's a challenge, I'm the first space holder. And so I need to notice and listen to what's going on inside of me first and foremost. Do I have any fear going on?
[00:18:41] Do I have anxiety? Do I have stress? Am I tense? Does my body have tension in it? Do I have resistance? And I, I define resistance as criticisms, complaints, and judgments. As I look at all of that, if I want to change a situation [00:19:00] faster than F A S T E R, F is for fear, A is for anxiety. S is for stress, T is for tension, R is for resistance, and that's criticism, complaint, or judgment.
[00:19:14] And the little E underneath it is the most important, and that's the energy. Energy isn't good or bad, it's not right or wrong. And so as I notice those things going on inside of me, I can begin to work with that energy in a very specific way, so that I can create a space for change and transformation.
[00:19:33] And so as I do that, I become a literal, uh, sort of like a tuning fork that, that rings a chime, and then I can also invite those other people into specific exercises, tools that will help them to also notice their energy and begin to work with their energy. And so that's based on the three fundamental principles of transformational presence as well, which is number one, that Everything is energy in [00:20:00] motion, part of a larger process unfolding.
[00:20:02] It's all about energy. Number two is that you can't create or destroy energy. You can't make it go away. You might as well work with it and learn how to work with it. And number three is that everything is built on a matrix of relationship. My relationship with you, my relationship with the situation, my relationship within myself.
[00:20:22] That's the space in between where all the powerful things happen. And so this is this is the fundamentals. So Anytime I have a conflict or anytime I have a disagreement or any kind of, um, energy like that, I actually get really excited because that means there's lots to work with in a very specific way to see transformations happen very quickly.
[00:20:43] If we can work with that energy. Everything else happens very, very fast. So that's, that's been my experience with that. So from a practical, uh, as you said, this is something that you've experienced. Uh, so can you, uh, let the coaches [00:21:00] here know what exactly was a process that you use apart from the three questions that you talked about and the whole concept of energy and so on, but in specific steps, for example, it took you two years.
[00:21:12] Um, and it created some change in these people. So what would have been the milestones and what, what were problems that you faced and how did you overcome them? How did they overcome them? Well, if you're, so if you're a coach, yeah. So let me, let's use the example that I've already brought into the space, which is Carolyn Vierman and working with her and then seeing how that developed.
[00:21:35] Um, so in order to do my work in the world and to serve in the way that I do, I need to be willing. To do my work inside of me. And so if you're a coach, I don't know if any other coaches have this experience, but oftentimes when you have a client, a difficult client, and they're going through a difficult situation and you sort of run out of, you know, tools, it's like, what do [00:22:00] I do?
[00:22:00] You kind of hit the wall, you hit the wall within yourself. And so, that is the first channel of awareness. And as I hit that wall with Caroline Vierman at different times, if I had, um, not been willing to do my work inside and work with the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the tension, the resistance within me, the judgment within me, then I would not have been able to create a space where she could step in and do her own work.
[00:22:27] I was willing to do my work inside in very specific ways and my own practices, and as I did that work, as I responded to that inner dialogue in a different way, what happened was then she was hitting her own fears. You know, she was a manager going into an organization that was in complete chaos and oftentimes couldn't find her voice or her power.
[00:22:51] She was very afraid at different times because she was not sure about what would happen from management. She was a director in that organization, but in any [00:23:00] organization that's going through a big reorg or restructuring People are afraid, you know, they're just afraid they don't know what's going to happen they're in uncertainty and she was one of those people and so When, when I did my work and then created a space where she could do her work, that energy that I'm talking about was something she began to work with in a very specific way with transformational presence and with her own commitment to doing her work from the inside out.
[00:23:28] So she, I would hit the wall, she would hit the wall. And I'm, I'm using the wall as a metaphor. Basically, you know, if you ever get to a place in your life or in your work where you don't have any answers, Where you're uncertain because everything you've tried is not working and you are still there going.
[00:23:46] Yes I've got this problem to get through and I don't know how to get through it. That's the wall That's the wall right there And I don't know about others But I've been in that situation as a manager as an executive and as a coach many many times [00:24:00] And so when we hit that wall, the conversation normally, normally in the past when I was much more reactive, I would have been shining the light outside of myself and just trying this or trying that.
[00:24:12] Well, the consequences of that led me to slow down. And to do the inner work that wanted to be done, so that that space could come out of me, and so that Caroline Vierman could also do her work as well. Now, this, this, this might sound super simple to people, and it's, it's, on one level it is very simple, but it's not easy.
[00:24:35] It's much easier sometimes to do, to, to look outside of yourself than to look inside of yourself. And so doing the work of looking inside of yourself has a huge impact, first of all, for the coach, second of all, for the people that that coach works with, and then what wants to happen on a larger scale in the system as well, because if you listen at this level, what invariably [00:25:00] happens is the forest.
[00:25:01] Wants to grow in the direction it wants to grow and it will then take you out into the world and for Caroline It took her out into now. Okay. What am I gonna do? How do I show up powerfully? Well it was with her own voice that she showed up and the things that she knew inside of herself that were right and true and she began to have a ability to speak that out In very specific ways and to take risks that she wasn't willing to take before.
[00:25:32] And so the first risk was to then create a pilot for six women that was completely unheard of in her organization. You know, she had courage, she had responsibility. She showed up as an owner. That's what comes out of this space. And as she did that, then she moved to the next part, which was now, how do I coach these people?
[00:25:51] And how do I do this with this six? And how do I do this with 50? Well, all the way through it, all the benchmarks, there was [00:26:00] this, this constant conversation to go inside so that then something bigger could expand outside. And in my experience building businesses as well, it's no different. You know, as an entrepreneur, Uh, in, in, you know, Canada at different points.
[00:26:15] I saw this again and again in startup and also in companies where we did very well. It was only because we hit the wall and then we were willing to go inside as a leadership team, as a group. And then we experienced an expansion that was corresponding after that. Because the system wants to expand. It, it really does want to expand all the time.
[00:26:37] So. You know, I know this probably sounds a little bit counterintellectual to what is, uh, typically talked about, but it's it's my experience. And, you know, now what we see in the system at this particular organization is that, you know, the financial markers are all great. And I, I'm, I'm a very, you know, practical person.
[00:26:58] I want to see the KPIs [00:27:00] met as well. But what's more important to me and what's been more impressive is the way that the people involved in this organization have been. Are now finding their voice and they're showing up as responsible owners inside that system. And now the system is shifting and changing at a larger scale.
[00:27:18] And it's going to continue to do that. You know, we don't know where that will end, but you know, this is an organization that teaches children that can't see or hear how to communicate. And so it's a very important system that is benefiting from the kind of work that we're describing. So. For me, it's, um, it really makes a big difference the way that it serves the human spirit.
[00:27:42] And we also get to have the financial benefits too. That's the gravy on top, you know. Trace, you know what? I didn't expect this. Okay. You sound like the Buddha. Not a Canadian coach. That's far from what I expected. [00:28:00] Now you're making me blush. No, no, no, no. I'm impressed. I'm truly impressed. Uh, I didn't expect this to happen.
[00:28:09] Um, and what you're saying here. I understand what you're saying, or let me put it back to you, if I understand it correctly. The point that you make about the inside out, the inner work, in a sense, what you're saying is that I go inside, and I let, I accept the change that needs to happen. And in some Indefinable way that gets translated into the other people there, this leader and other people there.
[00:28:41] It requires a tremendous amount of faith. Well, so one of the things that I think at first it's, um, it's like any other new skill that you learn. It feels unfamiliar and a bit scary to try it. But I'll tell you that once you work in this way and then you find [00:29:00] the practical, uh, way that it gets things done.
[00:29:04] You can't go back to the old way anymore because, you know, if you, I, I live in British Columbia, Canada, so I'm on the west coast of the country. And so we have, I think we have, it's about 163 million acres of forests. And so we have the massive amounts of forests and When I walk into the middle of the forest, and I slow down, and I listen to the trees, and I listen to the sounds that are there, the life that's there, I immediately anchor and connect deeply within myself, and so it's, it really It is about doing the inside work so that you can do your outside work, and that's the practice.
[00:29:47] It's not a, it's not a methodology in the sense of the linear. It's a practice that we're invited into. And when we do this work in this way, and we respond by being open [00:30:00] and Honest and having humility. The results then are that we get to show up in the fullness of who we are and bring the gift that we have to share as individuals.
[00:30:12] And that, that spreads outward and expands to the team or person that I'm working with, to the team, to the organization. And it really is my belief that organizations are longing To be like that forest. And the reason I know that is because of all the, the dissonance and the problems and the challenges that are in organizations today, you know, people.
[00:30:38] Um, we're never meant to work in the way that a lot of organizations in command and control models work. And we know that because we just aren't happy in that. What really is wanting to happen now is for the organization to evolve. And you see that with work like Frederic Leleu's work or You know, you see that with, um, [00:31:00] reinventing organizations or with theory, you, it's more and more coming into the awareness of, of leaders that there's a better way.
[00:31:07] And, and there's a better way for human beings and for the bottom line as well, which I think is very important. We need to do things in a new way so that we can serve both and have a fiscal responsibility, but also have a responsibility for the people first and foremost. Um, there are a couple of questions I would like you to take up.
[00:31:30] Uh, one is Pandit has asked, uh, can you elaborate on what do you mean by work on your insight a little bit more? And another question is from Ramcharan. Um, he's asking whether, is, is that the work, the inner work that you're doing? Are you doing it as you are in the here and now, uh, at that work, or is it something that you.
[00:31:52] Do elsewhere and, uh, bring it into that work. Oh, that's a great question. That's a great question. And then it's [00:32:00] yes to, to the second one. But I, so let's go with the first one, first of all. So, so one really practical way that I find that helps me, uh, to, to connect to my work is anytime that I'm being critical or I'm complaining.
[00:32:17] Or I'm being judgmental of myself or of others. That's like a bell ringing, inviting me to go inside and look at what's underneath that. And to begin to work with that in very specific ways. So that I can work with the energy underneath that now for let me, let me also be really honest with you and say that at one time, you know, I was a very reactive executive.
[00:32:44] You know, I, I was very, very driven and I was very reactive. I got a lot of things done and I also made a lot of money, but it really wasn't satisfying to me because I I wasn't working with people in a way that [00:33:00] felt, um, like it served the human spirit, mine or theirs. And what I discovered was that, for me at least, in my story, that I had a lot of anxiety that I was carrying around inside of me.
[00:33:13] That I was unaware of and a lot of fear and stress and tension that I was not paying attention to. And so for me, I went through a pretty significant illness and a number of things that helped me to be aware in a deeper way. So that I could share with you, so that I could be here and share with you, but it's really actually quite simple.
[00:33:35] The work that I do inside myself is anytime that I'm afraid, anytime I'm anxious, or stressed out, or tense in my body, anytime that I have a complaint, you know, I don't know about you, but I have, I have Sometimes a lot of complaints to share with my that go on inside. I would never share that outside of myself.
[00:33:57] Of course, I would. I just keep that inside. Well, [00:34:00] that's those. That's the work to do inside now to the second question. Um, you know, uh, And, and to be fair to the practical people in the room, when you discover your complaint and when you discover your, um, you know, your work, there are specific practical, simple things that you can do.
[00:34:20] This, this forum, you know, is probably not the right place to get into that depth at this point, but there are definitely steps that you can take and to work with that. And that's my work. That's what I do with people all over the world. So the second question, when are you doing your work? Are you, when are you doing it somewhere away from work and then doing it at work?
[00:34:40] For me, the answer is both because there are things, definite interventions that I've done over the years and that I do in my practice as a human being to show up in the way I'm describing, but it's moment by moment. There is a conversation that's going on underneath the moment. That has no words.
[00:34:58] There's an energetic [00:35:00] conversation going on right now that you can hear, that I can hear, that oftentimes we ignore, but we're invited to listen to that conversation because that will serve us very powerfully. So, the practice of the here and now, listening right now, like what's going on inside of me right now, and then also, To do specific things to, um, retreat and nourish my soul and nourish my spirit and nourish my mind and my body to do things that will help me to, um, hold a space because as space holders, we need to have the capacity to be able to hold the space that I'm describing because when you go into organizations that are very, very difficult, you need to have that.
[00:35:45] uh, resilience. Otherwise you'll have a tough time. Can I ask you this? So, uh, are you doing that inner work now? And if you're doing it, is it arising out of [00:36:00] anxiety or frustration or anything like that? Or is it coming from something far more positive? Well, thank you for that. So yes, I am doing that work right now.
[00:36:11] And as I'm listening below the all those things that are so the reason I frame it the way I do is because usually for people, they're very aware of the fact that they've got fear or anxiety or stress or tension or resistance. And as you teach them that they can become aware of that. But as you listen to the energy underneath that, Always, it always, always, always wants to transform into compassion and into love and into acceptance that comes from the inside out.
[00:36:44] And so right now I'm working with that love and that acceptance and that compassion and I'm listening to it and I'm holding a space that is an offering. It's a service, you know, I'm here to serve, right? So, um, you know, thank you for that, Ron. That's a very nice distinction. [00:37:00] So in a sense, I mean, there have been several questions.
[00:37:04] Wanting exactly to know unfortunately this all of us feel the need for taking away tools, right? I mean, so obviously people really would like to take away that tool from you and practice it So is it a meditative process? Is that something which you could give them a few tips on? How exactly can they go inside and practice a bit of, not as well as you do, but at least to start with it.
[00:37:31] Well, so there's, there's a number of tools and, and frameworks. I, I would actually really highly recommend, uh, Alan Seale's book on this, uh, transformational presence. He has a tools book that's just wonderful, wonderful resource. And. When you have him come in, uh, he'll definitely go over that. Um, there's, there's a few different tools that we could do right now.
[00:37:57] In fact, and, um, well, [00:38:00] why don't we just, why don't we just do one? How much time do we have right now? You know, about 10 minutes. Okay, so let's, let's, in 10 minutes, let's do a tool. Let's do an exercise that, that is based on transformational presence that'll help you. So just right now as you're sitting in your chair and you're all, you know, listening to all this information and you've got everything going on, just, if you could just sit in your chair and feel your body in your chair for just a moment.
[00:38:26] And take a deep breath and, and put the pens and the pencils down and put the electronic devices down and just be here and now for a moment and take a deep breath.
[00:38:46] And as you breathe, feel your body in the chair and feel the clothing against your skin
[00:38:57] and your feet planted on the floor.[00:39:00]
[00:39:03] And take another deep breath. As if your heart could breathe in the oxygen through your chest, breathe in through your heart.
[00:39:18] And as you breathe like that, and you notice the conversation that we're talking about, bring into your awareness a challenge that you've got going on right now. Don't worry, you don't have to, you know, solve it. You just need to be aware of what the topic is.
[00:39:40] Just be with your topic for a moment.
[00:39:45] And wherever that topic is, as you take a deep breath into the challenge, or whatever is going on that you feel blocked about, or stuck with. Where is that in your body right now? Where does that [00:40:00] live in your body? Just notice where it is.
[00:40:08] And as you notice it in your body, take one of your hands and put it on that spot. Whether it's your belly, or your heart, or your shoulders. And take a deep breath into that spot. And as you take a deep breath into that spot, with your breath, as if your breath could ask it a question, ask that spot and that challenge, what is it that you really want me to know right now?
[00:40:37] And then take another deep breath to listen to the answer.
[00:40:49] And as you receive, whatever it is that you sense and feel, whether it's a word, or a picture, or a sound, Take another breath and ask that space, who is it that [00:41:00] you are asking me to be right now? What is it that you really want in the role that I'm to play? And take a deep breath to listen to the answer there.
[00:41:23] And as you sense into this space, ask this spot inside of you, what is it that you want me to take as one step in the next 24 hours? And then take another breath to listen to the answer that comes.
[00:41:49] Now, if you take a moment now, and you can grab your pens and your paper, and write down a couple of notes that you discovered in this space. As you're writing what you [00:42:00] discovered here with this very short exercise, write also down an answer to the question, Who do I get to be? When I do this,
[00:42:19] and then you can take a moment to write that down and as you, as you feel inspired to
[00:42:28] put a word in the chat that describes what just happened for you, and whatever that is, is totally fine. You know, if nothing happened, that's okay, too. It's not about it being a certain way. It's about it actually just listening to what's going on. And[00:43:00]
[00:43:01] when we slow down to the speed of presence like this. There's a beautiful thing that happens. We begin to hear information and we also find nourishment for our spirit so that something new can happen.
[00:43:24] And that was in a very short, maybe seven minutes.
[00:43:33] So let's just take a look at the chat and see what we see here. So let's see here. Permission, the way forward, awesome, clarity, mother, wow, I had a great discovery. From Anuradha, carefree from Rika. Reconnection to self. Very relaxing and calming. And I [00:44:00] love, I love Leo's comment. Unfortunately, I felt nothing within my body.
[00:44:03] And so, just notice that, Leo. And that is important information too. And it's not something that we need to make right or wrong. It's just what it is, and it's great information to pay attention to. Neil Manley says, intuition at best. KT's shot, feeling calm, acceptance. You know, that's, that's beautiful.
[00:44:30] Beautiful, beautiful. So, when we, when we work in this way, now what is the action step that is being asked of you? And who are you being asked to be in this challenge? Who is this challenge really asking you to be? And this is a, a completely different way of looking at it, but you know, what wants to happen, who is it asking you to be, and what is it asking you to do as [00:45:00] a, as a transform action step, there's transformation from the inside, and then there's an action step, what is the action step, and you can put that in the chat if you feel compelled to, or inspired to share too, what's your action step in the next 24 hours?
[00:45:16] From Hira, show my love. What could be more important than that when you work in organizations with leaders and executives? For some reason today I have done three exercises like this. What is amazing is how you feel different emotions in different parts of your body from Kristen. That is so true and we have a beautiful tool called the three intelligences that Alan Seale also, uh, developed.
[00:45:41] One of my favorites and that taps into the intelligence of the intellect and the heart and the belly and learns how to integrate that together. And so we use this in our work as well. Um, rum, I'm asked to be myself without reference to prior self model. [00:46:00] That's wow. That's huge. You know, usually we learn in reverse.
[00:46:04] We learn from our past experience. Well, how can something new happen if we don't Get into discovery. Nothing new can happen while you're in discovery with that realm. So thank you for that And to step out of my comfort zone, Deepa says. So, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful work. You're amazing, amazing coaches.
[00:46:26] Thank you for sharing so openly. And, uh, I trust that this has served you. Thank you very, very much. In fact, before we started this particular series on systemic coaching about a couple of weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago, we had for about six weeks, uh, six months, we had, uh, sessions on spirituality, where many of these, uh, not quite.
[00:46:47] Uh, Alan Seed's model and others, but, uh, we went into, um, Eastern and Western, uh, analogies and integration and so on and so forth. And this is amazing. [00:47:00] Uh, I would have honestly never ever thought. of bringing in that aspect of it into something which is seen to be as, I don't know, very professional in terms of systemic leadership, team coaching, whatever it might be, but you brought it in absolutely beautifully.
[00:47:19] And I'm truly grateful to you and we really would like to have the honor of having you. Uh, more often here or in some of other. Ah, I would love to there's, you know, this work, this work is, is, uh, applicable in every situation that I've worked in, um, you know, working with agile professionals or scrum professionals or an accounting team I've worked with, um, you know, every functional area of the business world.
[00:47:45] And the thing about this that is really normal is that. We are meant to work in this way. And so, you know, as you hold a space and intention like that, uh, people begin to step in and, and it's [00:48:00] actually much, much simpler than, than what we normally think. So, I don't really think of it as spiritual. I normally, um, it's about energy.
[00:48:09] It's about working with energy. Which, you know, In the energy field or utilities or oil and gas or where, you know, this is translatable. It's all very translatable. So, yeah, I would love to come back. It's been so wonderful to be here with you Ram. Thank you very, very much, uh, Trace. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
[00:48:29] Uh, it was amazing. And, um, the end of that exercise, what I felt was complete. Peace and calmness, and there wasn't a need for me to do anything. So it, it, it, it, it And how did that feel, Ram? How did it feel to have no need to do anything? Beautiful. Yeah. A complete state of acceptance in terms of, Yeah, this is, uh, where we are, this is where we are supposed to be.
[00:48:56] So that's exactly what you're saying. Okay. Once again, [00:49:00] absolutely wonderful having you. You, I mean, you can't imagine how happy we are to have you here. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're very kind to me. You're very kind. All right. Thank you so much for staying to the end. I trust that that episode served you.
[00:49:13] And if you have any questions, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thank you so much. And until next time, be well. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. I appreciate you as an expression of my gratitude and appreciation for the work that you're doing. I've created a downloadable resource for you.
[00:49:32] That is a safe space checklist. This is a checklist. That you can use that will give you an immediate win by increasing your awareness of where you and your team are at right now when it comes to creating a safe space. To receive your safe space checklist, simply click the link in the show notes of this episode.
[00:49:53] I hope you have a wonderful day and remember to be a safe space for yourself, the people around you [00:50:00] and for your life.
